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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 30 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1280<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Hi All! & Starports Question<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Traveller 3D Art Mailing List (was Re: 3D Art)<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re:TML Members as resources<BR>
Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?<BR>
opengl95.exe<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Re Level 0 and CT<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
Re: [OT] Cultural Differences<BR>
Re: Wizard of Oz (Was Re: Traveller economics)<BR>
Re: [OT] Cultural Differences<BR>
Re: Hi All! & Starports Question<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
Re: opengl95.exe<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:47:13 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Hi All! & Starports Question<BR>
<BR>
>Hi All! I'm back on the list again and back home in the Torres Strait,<BR>
>Australia once more. Just a quick couple of questions, is GT: Starports out<BR>
>yet? If not, when is it due?<BR>
<BR>
Not yet, but you can put it on your Christmas list.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:02:35 -0600<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
>>Japanese kids watch cartoons, movies, and tv shows that are more violent<BR>
>>than what we see in North America, and they play more violent video games.<BR>
>>Yet the crime rate over there is much lower than it is here. However, since<BR>
>>I do not want to start (yet another) debate about the Second Amendment, I<BR>
>>will refrain from drawing a conclusion in this forum. :-D<BR>
><BR>
>Yeah, well the Japanese don't eat cheese. So statistically, you could argue<BR>
>that we should give up cheese!<BR>
<BR>
Your argument makes sense only if you can show a connection between<BR>
cheese and violence in the first place. If you're going to post arguments,<BR>
please at least try to make them intelligent ones. Not to mention, relevant<BR>
ones.<BR>
<BR>
>Kiri can correct me if I'm wrong, but my Japanese friends tell me that<BR>
>Japan has a much higher level of social control than America. Leave your<BR>
>trash can out of place on the curb and the "trash lady" comes to warn you.<BR>
>Keep doing it and the neighbourhood reacts. This factor should be taken<BR>
>into account.<BR>
<BR>
Okay, how about an example closer to home? Canadians watch the same <BR>
violent TV and movies that Americans do. Canada's level of social control<BR>
is for the most part the same as what one finds in the USA. On the other<BR>
hand, Canada's violent crime rate is a small fraction of the USA's.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:16:08 -0300<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Traveller 3D Art Mailing List (was Re: 3D Art)<BR>
<BR>
        There seem to be several of us tinkering and toodling to varying<BR>
degrees with 3D stuff for Traveller.  Would anyone like me to set up a<BR>
mailing list on my box where we can jaw about anything we've figured out<BR>
relative to modeling "Objects Traveller", get peer-group feedback and such?<BR>
<BR>
        If you are interested, please RSVP off-list. <BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:51:41 -0400<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
At 11:22 PM 10/30/99 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
> > I don't have any experience with PovRay, but someone on this list used it<BR>
> > IIRC.....<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >Somebody mentioned that POVRAY was free.  How easy to use is povray?  Is<BR>
>it<BR>
> > >worth the time to download it because it is obviously worth the price of<BR>
> > >nothing.<BR>
><BR>
>I've used povray, and it's very easy to use, but at least back when I use it<BR>
>the problem was that it's _just_ a renderer .<BR>
><BR>
>It doesn't really provide you with any tools for interactively designing<BR>
>anything, you describe all the points, the textures, and the lighting in a<BR>
>_text_ file, and then tell povray  to render it.<BR>
><BR>
>Really easy to use for spheres & squares, etc, but very hard to define<BR>
>complex 3D objects,  though some people have done some amazing work with it.<BR>
>If you have some too that can provide you with a three-dimensional point<BR>
>map, then PovRay can render it.<BR>
><BR>
>There are other options out there.  Bryce is nowhere near as expensive as<BR>
>Light Wave and it has a much better and easier to use interface than<BR>
>LightWave, though obvioulsy it's not as powerful.<BR>
><BR>
>Bryce also let's you do complete scenes nicely, as it includes Vista-Pro<BR>
>type landscape tools as well as cloud maps, and specific lighting tools for<BR>
>replicating the effect of a light source through cloud /haze/fog<BR>
<BR>
Another big tool out there is 3d Studio Max (currently release <BR>
3).  Unfortunately, this is a tool in LightWave's league, as it goes for <BR>
about $3000, plus another $2000 or so for character studio.  While fairly <BR>
easy to learn (at least the basics) and _extremely_ powerful, it is out of <BR>
reach for most people.  Projects I'm aware of that were done in 3dsm <BR>
include the cut scenes from Starcraft and Brood War, as well as the <BR>
entirety of either "Bug's Life" or "Antz", I never remember which.<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:27:45 -0400<BR>
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
Subject: Re:TML Members as resources<BR>
<BR>
At 02:13 PM 10/29/99 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>Here I am in all my glory<BR>
><BR>
>854996<BR>
><BR>
>Admin-1, Streetwise-1, Computer-1, Jack-O-T-1,<BR>
>Bow combat-0<BR>
<BR>
(I am talking CT speak now)<BR>
You are the most realistic person I've seen. Remember that characters<BR>
generally get one or two skills per term.<BR>
initial term of service (18-21): 2 skills<BR>
every other term (22-whatever/4): 1 skill<BR>
on promotion (you define this): 1 skill<BR>
on commission (you define this): 1 skill<BR>
<BR>
[I thought I lost Book 3 there for a minute, I search my headboard<BR>
(great place for Traveller material) and found Book 6 and<BR>
"The Joyful Christian" (sorry if I resemble the xtian remarks of<BR>
another thread. I don't spam or throw bombs. That would be immoral.)<BR>
Anyway, when I put Book 6 back, there was Book 3, between 5 & 7]<BR>
<BR>
It turns out to be Book 2, Starships (of course), that describes<BR>
Experience/Self Improvement (page 40).<BR>
<BR>
"... the character devotes himself to a four-year program of self<BR>
improvement, dedicating his endeavors in something like an<BR>
obsession..."<BR>
<BR>
Education: You may raise EDU by 1 or 2 points every year via night<BR>
school / correspondence courses, up to a maximum of 6 points per 4<BR>
years. You may not do this unless EDU is lower than INT.<BR>
<BR>
Additionally, you may take a 4 year sabbatical (going back to college,<BR>
or technical school, and get a non-weapon skill at level 2.<BR>
<BR>
A character can also make temporarily increase his skill by devoting<BR>
himself to it for a 4-year period. You must have skill level 1/2 at least<BR>
to do this. At the end of a four year period the skill reverts back to<BR>
its original level unless the obsession continues for another four years.<BR>
You can choose any two skills. If they are weapon skills, one gun and<BR>
one blade may be chosen.<BR>
<BR>
You can also enter an exercise program and increase the first three stats.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry for the verbosity, but this is the really watered down version.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, I figure that because I am completely immersed in computers (I<BR>
think I would have to make a roll against obsession (and not have the<BR>
neat job I have) to stop it) I gave myself a higher level. I've gotten<BR>
two or three promotions (as my boss defines it), and no commissions<BR>
(Promotion to Programming Manager? No thanks.) which I would probably<BR>
get admin-1 for.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>My primary survival skills are based on being a mostly likable guy who<BR>
>doesn't go out of his way to annoy people.<BR>
><BR>
>I based the Int score on 7=IQ 100 and F=IQ 200<BR>
>if you rate IQ 200 as C run the int down to 8.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rob Brady 685B57            Computer Geek, 4 terms<BR>
Computer-4, Electronic-1, Streetwise-1<BR>
"Don't even ask about quirks!"     robb at datatone dot com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:02:29 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 30 October 1999 00:37<BR>
Subject: Re: How many contacts to span the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
>>And an Empire of 10 trillion people has a separation of<BR>
>><BR>
>>Log( 13 - 3 ) = 10.<BR>
>><BR>
>>What an incredibly low number.  Must be wrong.<BR>
>><BR>
>>-Rob<BR>
><BR>
>Note that the US is also a very mobile society. People move very easily,<BR>
>travel is cheap, and communication is instant.  It might be instructive to<BR>
>look at a medieval society, as well as an early Victorian society, to see<BR>
>what different scaling factors (if any) exist.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes, even then you know the local squire/mill owner, who hob-nobs with<BR>
aristo's who in turn hob-nob with higher nobles, who know the king who knows<BR>
kings/ambassadors of other counties. Then just go down the other way. You're<BR>
still only 6-7 step away from almost any one in a 'civilised' country.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:25:41 -0500<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: opengl95.exe<BR>
<BR>
opengl95.exe<BR>
<BR>
Any of you 3d artists out there have a copy of this file?  I can't find<BR>
anywhere.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
<BR>
      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:04:11<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
At 09:02 AM 10/30/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Okay, how about an example closer to home? Canadians watch the same <BR>
>violent TV and movies that Americans do. Canada's level of social control<BR>
>is for the most part the same as what one finds in the USA. On the other<BR>
>hand, Canada's violent crime rate is a small fraction of the USA's.<BR>
<BR>
Canada also has a much smaller population, which is a bit less diverse than<BR>
ours, and far less concentrated.  They also don't get hellish summers,<BR>
which has a stastisical effect on violent crime.  We also have a cultural<BR>
tradition of violence.  Look at our heroes, ferpete'ssake!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:31:01 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Clonfero <Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Level 0 and CT<BR>
<BR>
Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I disagree with this though..hand ME and Uzi with the safety on and I can't<BR>
>gurantee I could fire it in a pinch.  <BR>
<BR>
Perversely, an Uzi would probably not pose you a problem - the safety is<BR>
in the pistol grip. Now fire a Steyr on single shot after being taught<BR>
on another rifle...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Aetherem Vincere<BR>
Matt<BR>
- -- <BR>
Matt Clonfero: Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk    | To err is human, To forgive<BR>
My employer and I have a deal - I don't speak | is not Air Force Policy.<BR>
for them, and they don't speak for me.        |   -- Anon, ETPS.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:35:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
On 10/29/99 at 11:21 PM,  "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>needs a well thought out setup.  I don't think either Pournelle or<BR>
>>Nivin rpg, or have any interest in rpging.  I'd also lay you odds<BR>
<BR>
>I don't know about conventional paper-based gaming, but Pournelle<BR>
>seems to be fairly into computer games based on his 'Byte' articles.<BR>
<BR>
Not to start *that* debate, but computer games are about as close to<BR>
roleplaying games as card games are.  IOW, different beasts<BR>
entirely...IMO <g><BR>
<BR>
Combining this thread with another....so who knows Pournelle well<BR>
enough to talk to him about a project like this? <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:50:20 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences<BR>
<BR>
No flames please.  This isn't intended to be an anti-American post; it's<BR>
intended to get you to look at things from a slightly different perspective.<BR>
I love both Japan and America, though right now I would be living in Japan<BR>
if it weren't for the fact that Hiroshi prefers the US.  We are a very<BR>
strange pair.<BR>
<BR>
>>>Japanese kids watch cartoons, movies, and tv shows that are more violent<BR>
than what we see in North America, and they play more violent video games.<BR>
Yet the crime rate over there is much lower than it is here. However, since<BR>
I do not want to start (yet another) debate about the Second Amendment, I<BR>
will refrain from drawing a conclusion in this forum. :-D<BR>
>>><BR>
<BR>
I don't think that's it, either.  I believe in the Second Amendment, I think<BR>
that in America, it's necessary.  The type of government oppression that it<BR>
was designed to forestall would be resisted differently in Japan-- and in<BR>
Japan, you don't have people living so far away from one another that by the<BR>
time the police arrive, the females in the house have been raped, the<BR>
valuables taken, and possibly the males have been killed.  There are still<BR>
fairly big stretches of America, growing with rural depopulation and the<BR>
rise of factory farming, where this is the case.<BR>
<BR>
>>Yeah, well the Japanese don't eat cheese. So statistically, you could<BR>
argue that we should give up cheese!<BR>
>><BR>
>Correlation is not causation and all that.<BR>
><BR>
The Japanese didn't eat cheese fifty years ago.  The Japanese eat cheese<BR>
whenever they feel like it, now.  I've been to Japan, I'm rather familiar<BR>
with the place, McDonalds puts cheese on the burgers there, too.  The<BR>
Japanese eat everything that Americans eat, unless they personally dislike a<BR>
certain food or have allergies/intolerances, plus everything that they have<BR>
always eaten.  Americans are the only people in the world who are really<BR>
finicky about funny looking food; we go to other countries and eat our own<BR>
food, as a general rule, and unless you live in a really large city, the<BR>
food in American "ethnic" restaurants is usually substantially different<BR>
from what you'd get in the country of origin.<BR>
<BR>
I don't recall if I ate cheese or not the last time that I was in Japan, but<BR>
I'm pretty sure that I did, because my favorite breakfast to eat over there<BR>
consists of the Japanese version of British tea sandwiches and a large glass<BR>
of iced tea with sugar syrup in it.  (Yeah, I ate that every day at Comic<BR>
Market...)<BR>
<BR>
>Kiri can correct me if I'm wrong, but my Japanese friends tell me that<BR>
Japan has a much higher level of social control than America.<BR>
><BR>
It depends upon what you consider annoying.  Hiroshi prefers the United<BR>
States but that has a lot to do with the nature of his ambitions and the<BR>
fact that he wasn't real happy growing up (I wouldn't go back to my home<BR>
town on a bet, either.)  Many Japanese don't want to go back to Japan<BR>
because they think that it is too much trouble to keep up the outward<BR>
appearances that are expected over there.  I rather like that sort of thing,<BR>
and appreciate the fact that you can be as strange, kinky, and weird as you<BR>
want to be so long as you have your trash can in the right place and don't<BR>
force other people to participate in your weirdness as observers.<BR>
<BR>
> Leave your trash can out of place on the curb and the "trash lady" comes<BR>
to warn you.  Keep doing it and the neighbourhood reacts. This factor should<BR>
be taken into account.<BR>
><BR>
What, you like it that people leave their trash cans all over the place, no<BR>
matter what everyone else does?  <g><BR>
<BR>
I think there's a high level of social control in AMERICA.  Total strangers<BR>
will come up to you and tell you that you shouldn't smoke, you're too fat to<BR>
eat this or that, God help you if you're pregnant and you dare to eat<BR>
anything in public because someone will have an opinion about it...<BR>
Complete outsiders will comment on your clothing, break into your quiet<BR>
conversation about a relationship problem to tell you to "Dump the<BR>
bastard!", or dump all their problems on you.<BR>
<BR>
People walk right up to you and ask you to change your religion, and they're<BR>
not respectful about it either.  I've been asked really rude questions by<BR>
people I had never seen before about pentacles, prayer beads, etc.  People<BR>
stand outside of clinics and shout at you about medical procedures they<BR>
disapprove of.<BR>
<BR>
And yet... you can leave your trash can right out in the damn street where<BR>
someone could trip over it and break their neck, and no one cares.<BR>
<BR>
The Japanese will pretend not to notice any behavior that isn't obtrusive<BR>
enough to upset people.  It's a skill learned from living in close quarters<BR>
for thousands of years.  They may go home and laugh about you to all of<BR>
their friends, but you won't know about it.<BR>
<BR>
I'd much rather have people tell me that I need to keep my trash can in the<BR>
appropriate place (and keep theirs in the appropriate place) than have<BR>
people giving me crap about who comes into and out of my apartment and how<BR>
late they stay, or telling me ON THE STREET that I'm too big to eat this or<BR>
that, or giving me unsolicited advice about my personal life, or regaling<BR>
everyone on public transit with the details of their drug habit/sexual<BR>
affairs/etc., or shoving tracts in my face and inquiring after my soul,<BR>
which is probably the most personal thing I can think of....<BR>
<BR>
See, it's all how you look at it...  It was very refreshing, on New Years<BR>
Morning when we all went to the shrines to get right with the kami, say hi<BR>
to Buddha, and make our New Year's resolutions to ourselves and our<BR>
ancestors, to see that everyone thought the small group of Americans (and a<BR>
very few Japanese) who were standing outside the shrines yelling at us that<BR>
we needed to change our religion were all nuts, and that they had to stay so<BR>
far away from the doors and couldn't get up in our faces.<BR>
<BR>
In general, when I've been in Japan, I have felt that total strangers were<BR>
much less likely to try and interfere with my behavior than they are here in<BR>
America.  If you do something obnoxious in public over there, people just<BR>
pretend you don't exist.  I think that's a more effective way to get people<BR>
to change what they do than giving them crap.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan            93!              Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
the current fair warnings:<BR>
<BR>
"No matter what, expect the unexpected.  And whenever<BR>
possible, BE the unexpected."     -- Lynda Barry<BR>
<BR>
"Honest to the point of recklessness, and self-centered<BR>
 in the extreme."            -- Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia<BR>
<BR>
"God sent me to piss the world off!"  -- Eminem<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:06:06 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Wizard of Oz (Was Re: Traveller economics)<BR>
<BR>
On 30 Oct 99, at 9:03, DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The Mother goose nursery rhymes are also said to be originally of a<BR>
> political bent, but the only paralells I can find are possibly, Peter,<BR>
> Peter Pumpkin Eater = Peter the Great, and George III = Humpty Dumpty<BR>
<BR>
Try "Mary, Mary, quite contrary..." Apparently this rhyme was about <BR>
Queen Mary I and her habit of changing favourites (and removing the <BR>
heads of the old ones).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:15:53 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences<BR>
<BR>
On 30 Oct 99, at 12:50, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> I think there's a high level of social control in AMERICA.  Total<BR>
> strangers will come up to you and tell you that you shouldn't smoke,<BR>
> you're too fat to eat this or that, God help you if you're pregnant and<BR>
> you dare to eat anything in public because someone will have an opinion<BR>
> about it... Complete outsiders will comment on your clothing, break into<BR>
> your quiet conversation about a relationship problem to tell you to "Dump<BR>
> the bastard!", or dump all their problems on you.<BR>
> <BR>
> People walk right up to you and ask you to change your religion, and<BR>
> they're not respectful about it either.  I've been asked really rude<BR>
> questions by people I had never seen before about pentacles, prayer beads,<BR>
> etc.  People stand outside of clinics and shout at you about medical<BR>
> procedures they disapprove of.<BR>
> <BR>
> And yet... you can leave your trash can right out in the damn street where<BR>
> someone could trip over it and break their neck, and no one cares.<BR>
<BR>
This makes me feel that there are more good points to New Zealand than <BR>
I realised - aside from a very few anti-abortionists outside clinics <BR>
this sort of thing only happens to politicians, and recent events <BR>
suggest that the protesters are more at risk from the politicians than <BR>
vice versa.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:30:05 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hi All! & Starports Question<BR>
<BR>
Nope, it's not out yet.  Deadline for the artwork is Monday, so Andy Akins,<BR>
Glenn Grant, and I are busy haulin' ass to get the interior stuff finished.<BR>
The SJG website says the book is due out in December, which is about right<BR>
based on my past experience with the previous books I've done artwork for.<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: cjbrain <cjbrain@bigpond.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 2:43 AM<BR>
Subject: Hi All! & Starports Question<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Hi All! I'm back on the list again and back home in the Torres Strait,<BR>
>Australia once more. Just a quick couple of questions, is GT: Starports out<BR>
>yet? If not, when is it due?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:32:53 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
That's one thing that I wish Lightwave did better:  landscapes & atmospheric<BR>
conditions.  The tools in Bryce are MUCH better for that type of thing than<BR>
Lightwave.<BR>
<BR>
The interface design, well....<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Frank Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 3:23 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>> I don't have any experience with PovRay, but someone on this list used it<BR>
>> IIRC.....<BR>
>><BR>
>> >Somebody mentioned that POVRAY was free.  How easy to use is povray?  Is<BR>
>it<BR>
>> >worth the time to download it because it is obviously worth the price of<BR>
>> >nothing.<BR>
><BR>
>I've used povray, and it's very easy to use, but at least back when I use<BR>
it<BR>
>the problem was that it's _just_ a renderer .<BR>
><BR>
>It doesn't really provide you with any tools for interactively designing<BR>
>anything, you describe all the points, the textures, and the lighting in a<BR>
>_text_ file, and then tell povray  to render it.<BR>
><BR>
>Really easy to use for spheres & squares, etc, but very hard to define<BR>
>complex 3D objects,  though some people have done some amazing work with<BR>
it.<BR>
>If you have some too that can provide you with a three-dimensional point<BR>
>map, then PovRay can render it.<BR>
><BR>
>There are other options out there.  Bryce is nowhere near as expensive as<BR>
>Light Wave and it has a much better and easier to use interface than<BR>
>LightWave, though obvioulsy it's not as powerful.<BR>
><BR>
>Bryce also let's you do complete scenes nicely, as it includes Vista-Pro<BR>
>type landscape tools as well as cloud maps, and specific lighting tools for<BR>
>replicating the effect of a light source through cloud /haze/fog<BR>
><BR>
>Frankie<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:35:06 -0300<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: opengl95.exe<BR>
<BR>
At 01:25 PM 10/30/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>opengl95.exe<BR>
><BR>
>Any of you 3d artists out there have a copy of this file?  I can't find<BR>
>anywhere.<BR>
><BR>
>----------------------------------------------<BR>
>he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
><BR>
>      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
        Yep...  see private e-mail....<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:29:35 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
> >True, but I have no clue if Niven & Pournelle ever published their<BR>
> >notes for  the Alderson Drive anywhere, so figuring out where an<BR>
> >Alderson Point is, your  guess is prolly better than mine.  They<BR>
> >*seem* to be on the order of a few  AU's out from the primary (except<BR>
> >of course for the one in Murcheson's Eye)<BR>
><BR>
> With the Alderson Drive most stars only had connections to a few<BR>
> other stars, and many stars weren't connected at all.  Might explain<BR>
> why the universe appears so flat.<BR>
<BR>
The "physics" of Alderson Dives were worked out in detail by Dan Alderson<BR>
from CalTech to Jerry's requirements , as well as how to locate Alderson<BR>
points, and this was all explained in one of Jerry's articles in Galaxy,<BR>
"Building the Mote In God's Eye" which was later republished in the<BR>
collection "A Step Further Out", which in itself is a wonderful quick<BR>
reference for all sorts of Travelleresque stuff.<BR>
<BR>
I could reproduce some of the details here if anyone is interested.<BR>
<BR>
For instance, there's an article all about how getting out of the gravuity<BR>
well of Earth is "Halfway to Anywhere", and another on why "Those pesky<BR>
Belters and their Torch Ships" won't happen, and one on "Living in the<BR>
Asteroids" with all the figures for delta-V betwen planets and time taken at<BR>
various specific impulses all worked out for you in nice little tables.<BR>
<BR>
It also has some wonderful arficles debunking the "Club of Rome's" dire<BR>
predictions "Survival with Style" , "A Blueprint for Survival", and one of<BR>
he first accessible description of  Stephen Hawking's work on black<BR>
holes."Gravity Waves, Black Holes, & Cosmic Censors"<BR>
<BR>
 > I think the MiGE/CoD universe would be a great place to play, but it<BR>
> needs a well thought out setup.  I don't think either Pournelle or<BR>
> Nivin rpg, or have any interest in rpging.  I'd also lay you odds<BR>
> that they would want a nice hefty licensing fee to use their<BR>
> background in anything commercial.<BR>
<BR>
Larry Niven seemed fine with other people writing in the "Known Universe",<BR>
there are quite a lot of people who have written "Known Univere" stories,<BR>
and authors in general aren't heavily into "licensing" their universes, they<BR>
are normally flattered if you ask to write something in their settiing, and<BR>
are really only concerned with whether you voiolate their idea of what the<BR>
universe is like, which usually means they ask for veto rights on<BR>
publication or at least some sort of editorial control..<BR>
<BR>
> I don't even know if it would be<BR>
> legal to develop something non-commercial based on the MiGE universe<BR>
> for more than personal use.<BR>
<BR>
There is nothing _illegal_ in people so doing .<BR>
<BR>
Advertising or distributing it _might_ be preventable, but only if the<BR>
copyright holder pursues it, it's not specifically illegal, and it is up to<BR>
the holder of any rights to pursue and enforce them.<BR>
<BR>
In fact, one can reuse someone's ideas without permission, because copyright<BR>
only covers the actual words in the book, _not_ ideas.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, we should be polite and ask for permission anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:36:32 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
There ya' go Shimmer, Shane did his pics with PovRay and The Gimp (huh?).<BR>
Very nice work for a ship of that type.  It'd be a bit harder to do a Marava<BR>
or such though ;)  I think there are some 3rd party modeling programs out<BR>
there for PovRay that give you more control over the modeling aspect as<BR>
well.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and Shane, you ARE a 3D artist now dude :)<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Shane Nicholas Thomas <shane.thomas@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 3:24 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Yet more 3D work<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Michael D. Peters said:<BR>
><BR>
>> All I have to say is that, dispite my wife's constant whi... er,<BR>
compla....<BR>
>> unheh, suggestion, I guess I haven't spent enough hours at it yet! Those<BR>
are<BR>
>> darn good!<BR>
><BR>
>Thanks for the praise!  Being single helps I guess, although I'm sure that<BR>
>before I started on this 3D stuff I had a social life (it seems to have<BR>
>wandered off somewhere else whilst I wasn't looking).<BR>
><BR>
>> What program are youworking in? I'd guess light wave..? THere's<BR>
>> something about the lighting that reminds me of some of Jesse's work. It<BR>
one<BR>
>> of the areas tha I really have to work on in Raydream, mostly I just use<BR>
>> defaults (and it shows).<BR>
><BR>
>The model is handcrafted POV-Ray as I find a programming language easier<BR>
than<BR>
>using a modeller. (So far at least: Daedalus is mostly made from<BR>
primitives,<BR>
>with a couple of lathe objects - no meshes.  I guess doing those by hand<BR>
>would cause my social life to leave me for good!)<BR>
><BR>
>Actually, the main reason I used POV-Ray is because it's free and I wanted<BR>
to<BR>
>see if I enjoyed 3D work (which I do) and if I had any talent at it, before<BR>
>spending good money on other software.<BR>
><BR>
>The image maps are produced using The GIMP which seems to be an extremely<BR>
>powerful package (i.e. I don't understand 90% of the facilities available.<BR>
>Before creating the maps for Daedalus I had never used anything more<BR>
>complicated than a basic paint program).<BR>
><BR>
>As for the lighting, it's very simple.  No ambient lighting for those harsh<BR>
>shadows, and a single large light a long way away for the star.  Oh, and a<BR>
>another bright light sitting in the engine if it's switched on!<BR>
><BR>
>Shane<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Shane Thomas                              shane.thomas@traveller.cjb.net<BR>
>Physicist and wannabe 3D artist           Oxford, UK<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1280<BR>
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